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Bruce Greenwald Interview on Benjamin Graham and Value Investing

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Feb. 06, 2010 | Filed Under: WMT , KO , BK.B , BRK.A , SPY , DIA , QQQQ

Bruce Greenwald - Bruce Greenwald Interview On Benjamin Graham And Value Investing

Jacob Wolinsky


Jacob Wolinsky
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I found a recent video interview with guru value investor Bruce Greenwald. Bruce Greenwald is interviewed by an Financial Times Reporter on value investing. Bruce Greenwald is one of my favorite value gurus. He is the author of Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett and Beyond which is a superb book on value investing. The book is required reading for guru Joel Greenblatt’s class in Columbia business school. Bruce Greenwald is also a director of research at First Eagle Funds. First Eagle Funds are a family of value funds that have outperformed the market by significantly over a long time frame. Greenwald was described by the NY Times as “a guru to Wall Street’s gurus”.

Greenwald has written a variety of books on economics and investing. In his book Competition Demystified Greenwald describes what makes some companies while others fail. Greenwald has a must read chapter on how Wal-Mart overtook Kmart to become king of retail USA. He also wrote about globalization and trade issues between China and the USA

Below is a video where Bruce Greenwald discusses the importance of balance sheets to investing.

Warrren Buffett recommended taking Bruce Greenwald’s class at Columbia University.

Bruce Greenwald says Benjamin Graham was more right 75 years ago about financial markets than almost anyone in the intervening period. He says Graham said to buy cheap, ugly and boring stocks which convinced many people Graham was crazy. Until people researched his ideas and realized his picks outperform the market by significant margins.

Why do people not buy these stocks if they offer superior returns? Bruce Greenwald says that this lead to the behavioral theory of finance ( I suppose he is referring to investors like David Dreman). There are three reasons to this 1. People like “lottery tickets”, hot stocks like technology. 2. People irrationally shy away from ugly stocks 3. People are way too overconfident.

This third reason leads to reason why people overbuy and oversell stocks. He says the statistical studies and behavioral studies have confirmed Benjamin Graham’s ideas in the past two decades.

Bruce Greenwald states the obvious ( which many investors miss) that on average an investor will earn the market return minus expenses because investors are the market. (John Bogle has pointed this out countless times). Greenwald says that Benjamin Graham understood that, so you had to look in special places to outperform.

Bruce Greenwald says the assets are the most reliable thing to evaluate, followed by current earnings. Future earnings are the hardest to predict and therefore they should be avoided.

Bruce Greenwald states that Warren Buffett’s style is different than Benjamin Graham. However an investment like Coca Cola is good because it is sustainable and is good at reinvesting earnings. Benjamin Graham did not look at these investments, however his followers like Buffett look for things that are ugly and look for things that are known like assets, current earnings, sustainable moats and not try to predict way out into the future.



For anyone who wants to see my new resource page on Bruce Greenwald. It can be found by following this link http://valuewalk.com/resource-page-2/current-value-investors/bruce-greenwald/



My investment ideas have been inspired by many of value investors including Benjamin Graham, Charles Royce, John Neff, Joel Greenblatt, Peter Lynch, Seth Klarman,Martin Whitman and Bruce Greenwald. .I live with my wife and daughter in Monsey, NY. I can be contacted jacobwolinsky(AT)gmail.com and my blog is www.valuewalk.com

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User Comments:
1. Dealraker says on Feb 08, 2010 at 8:48 AM:

I personally would like to thank Mr. Greenwald for severely criticizing Warren Buffett and thus running the stock down to $98,000 where it was 100% certain to be a sound investment.

Thanks Bruce. Let us know when you are worth $50 billion.
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2. Yswolinsky says on Feb 08, 2010 at 9:05 AM:

How do you know the investment was 100% sound the deal has not even closed yet!

You really think Greenwald caused the stock to decline? Even if you believe it you should be happy as it provides a buying opportunity

Bruce Greenwald is one of the best investors and worth a lot more than you
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3. Dizzy says on Feb 08, 2010 at 12:08 PM:

BG is not one of the best investors, according to Lowenstein's Buffett biography BG was no different than a maniacal gambler when "investing." He is prob a great teacher but would leave it at that.
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4. Yswolinsky says on Feb 08, 2010 at 12:37 PM:

what about his record at first eagle funds? better than lowensteins at Sequoia
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5. Augustabound says on Feb 08, 2010 at 1:07 PM:



what about his record at first eagle funds? better than lowensteins at Sequoia
He's not investing AFAIK. He's only the head of research. Big difference researching versus actual investing.
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6. Kessbroker says on Feb 11, 2010 at 2:58 PM:

1. Bruce Greenwald is the Director of Research at First Eagle. He is not a portfolio manager, and therefore does not make the final buy/sell decisions.

2. Roger Lowenstein is an outside director of Sequoia. In general (and in every case I can think of), directors who are not part of a fund's investment team have no input on the buy / sell decisions of a fund. Directors are responsible for acting on behalf of the shareholders to make sure a fund sticks with its mandate, fees and expenses are reasonable, etc.


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7. Yswolinsky says on Feb 11, 2010 at 3:36 PM:

I know both those facts.

so who is more involved in the decision making greenwald or lowenstein?

check out my new resource page on bruce greenwald

http://valuewalk.com/resource-page-2/current-value-investors/bruce-greenwald/
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8. Dealraker says on Feb 11, 2010 at 3:55 PM:

Professor Greenwad vs. Warren Buffett. I'll try my best to stop laughing 25 years from now.
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9. Yswolinsky says on Feb 11, 2010 at 5:13 PM:

Gee Buffett never made any investment mistakes in his life, you probably dont know too much about buffett's past 25 years?

wwww.valuewalk.com
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10. Roke6362 says on Feb 12, 2010 at 7:19 AM:



"BG is not one of the best investors, according to Lowenstein's Buffett biography BG was no different than a maniacal gambler when "investing." He is prob a great teacher but would leave it at that."



I took BG's value investing class in 2007. His description of himself is that he is not a great investor. He doesn't have the temperment for it. He uses his nephew, as I recall. He says he is better at research because he "would rather be the smartest guy in the room" instead of the richest.

Even he admits he is not an investor.
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11. Dealraker says on Feb 12, 2010 at 8:06 AM:

Come on people..... think! Who is the hell is Bruce Greenwald? You don't know this guy and you do not know his "investment" record. So when guy like this comes up with a "Buffett is and idiot" writing just file it in the "Attention Grabbers Crapshoot" drawer.

Gurufocus is a good place but many of those who grab attention here are either misnamed guru's or they are past guru's not destined to futher their record. That is a certainty.

Buffett does not fall into either of those places.
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12. LwC says on Feb 12, 2010 at 9:15 AM:

Well I've thought about it, as you suggested, and I can't find any reference to Greenwald writing "Buffett is and idiot".

And BTW I know who Greenwald is, but who the hell is "dealraker"?

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13. Yswolinsky says on Feb 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM:

He might not call himself an investor but I am sure first eagle funds didnt hire him to be a professor, I bet he has some valuable investment advice. His book on value investing is one of the best ones out there
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14. Roke6362 says on Feb 12, 2010 at 10:38 AM:



He might not call himself an investor but I am sure first eagle funds didnt hire him to be a professor, I bet he has some valuable investment advice. His book on value investing is one of the best ones out there


I agree with your opinion of the book. To use a football analogy, I believe he is the investor's offensive coordinator. He is great at planning, research, and stock valuation. However, he (by his own admission) can't execute his his own plan on the field. In other words, he doesn't have the temperment to run his offense with his own money.

It's just like being in a corporate job for part of your career, and then startn your own business. No one has EVER made a money decision until it is their money that's on the line.
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15. Yswolinsky says on Feb 12, 2010 at 10:51 AM:

that would still make his investment ideas very valuable according to you
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16. Roke6362 says on Feb 12, 2010 at 10:56 AM:



that would still make his investment ideas very valuable according to you


You're exactly right. I think we agree on this topic. I believe, however (as BG does), that there is a difference between having great investment ideas, and having them with the fortitude to risk your own capital on the idea.
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17. Yswolinsky says on Feb 12, 2010 at 11:02 AM:

There is a huge difference I agree with you. But his books contain lots of valuable knowledge as Im sure his classes also do.
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18. LwC says on Feb 12, 2010 at 11:09 AM:

I don't think that it's fair to state that Greenwald doesn't have the fortitude to risk his own capital.

IMO you have accurately portrayed Greenwald as stating that he doesn't have the temperament to be a good investor; however AFAIK he has clarified that by stating that in part, he recognizes that he tends to "get married" to his investment ideas and he recognizes that as a weakness. IMO it's commendable that he recognizes his circle of competence and structures his investment commitments to minimize the exposure to his undesirable temperament.

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19. Batbeer2 says on Feb 12, 2010 at 3:00 PM:

Bruce Greenwald states the obvious ( which many investors miss) that on average an investor will earn the market return minus expenses because investors are the market.

I think on average investors underperform in a big way. There are fewer buyers at the bottom than there are near the top.

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20. Dealraker says on Feb 12, 2010 at 3:30 PM:

Again, who in the hell is professor Greenwad? Jeeeezzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm supposed to value Bruce Greenwad's expertise! You have GOT, I mean G-O-T, to be kidding. Where do you guys come up with the chit?
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21. Yswolinsky says on Feb 12, 2010 at 3:44 PM:

Bruce Greenwald states the obvious ( which many investors miss) that on average an investor will earn the market return minus expenses because investors are the market.

He is not the only one to have stated this. John Bogle has said this numerous times.
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22. Yswolinsky says on Feb 12, 2010 at 4:18 PM:

Deal are you being sarcastic or serious?

wwww.valuewalk.com
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23. Buffetteer17 says on Feb 13, 2010 at 5:47 AM:

This conversation is missing the point in my opinion. The important questions are

(1) Do Greenwald's ideas make sense?

(2) Do Greenwald's ideas stand the test of time?

From my experience, the answer to both questions is a resounding "yes." I like his concept of deprecating future growth projections in favor of the present situation and balance sheet, including realistic estimates of intangibles. I like his concept of determining what it would cost a competitor to replicate the business. I like the idea that growth without a moat has no value to an investor. These same ideas, of course, can be found in Warren Buffett's writings and speeches. What Greenwald adds are the details and techniques needed to reduce the ideas to practice.

I do not know anything about Greenwald's track record as in investor. But it doesn't matter.
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24. Yswolinsky says on Feb 14, 2010 at 4:28 PM:

Good analysis Buffetter(as always)

It seems people on this site love to bash bruce greenwald and bill miller.
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25. Moathunter says on Feb 16, 2010 at 6:09 AM:

Greenwald must surely rank as one of the top 5 current educators of [value] investing.

So to denigrate the guy (as some here do) is to close your mind to learning, with the logical consequence of cutting your % annual return by a few percentage points.


(And for those who like Munger's multidisciplinary thinking, Greenwald's books "Competition Demystified" and "Value investing" embody this, as he covers many disciplines:

psychology of the market, applying game theory and competitive advantages to business strategy, simplifying [strategy] as much as possible and no more, limitations of accountancy, probability and Greenwalds focus on valuing facts and currrent earnings etc. etc.

The result of this is that Greenwald is a great teacher of common sense investing and humbly admits on his courses that he's not an investor).
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26. Yswolinsky says on Feb 16, 2010 at 12:32 PM:

Good analysis Moat
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