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Geoff Gannon
Geoff Gannon

Why I'd Never Pay More Than Book Value for Nokia (NOK)

Someone who reads my articles sent me this question:

Hi Geoff,

This isn't your kind of company, but what are your thoughts on Nokia (NYSE:NOK)? I have been tracking it for a while and wonder if you had ever thought about it?



Sivaram is a contrarian investor. He writes a great blog called Can Turtles Fly?

Hes also right about Nokia not being my kind of company. Its not a stock Id consider.

I have thought about Nokia. But not for long. I think about anything that drops a lot. I think about Bank of America (NYSE:BAC), and AIG (NYSE:AIG), and Hewlett-Packard (NYSE:HPQ) and honestly Id probably pick any of those over Nokia. Because there are a couple questions I ask myself before really digging into a stock. The first three are closely related some might say essentially identical:

1. Whats my risk of catastrophic loss?

2. Whats the chance this company doesnt exist in 10 years?

3. Whats the chance Ill misunderstand this business?

If the answers are: high, high, high Im out.

My answers for Nokia to those three questions are: high, high, high.

So Im out. Now, Im not saying theres a better than 50/50 chance Nokia doesnt exist in ten years. I dont know that. When I say the risk of catastrophic loss is high, the chance the company wont exist in ten years is high, and the chance I misunderstand the business is high I simply mean each of these risks are too high for an investment.

A 25% risk of losing everything in a stock is low in the sense that the event is unlikely to happen. But its very high in the sense that you would need a super bargain price to compensate you for a one-in-four chance of losing every dime you put into a stock.

Honestly, I dont even do a risk/return calculation like that. If the risk of total loss is too high I end the analysis there before my research even begins.

So why is the risk of loss in Nokia too high for me?

Its in the cell phone business. And I have no interest in owning a cell phone manufacturer. Its not a good business to be in. Sure. It looks like a good business for the leader. Until 2009, Nokia usually had returns on investment of 20% to 25% a year.

But, remember, Nokia is the global market-share leader in mobile phones:

Market Share
Nokia 24%
Samsung 18%
LG 5%
Apple 4%
ZTE 3%
RIM 3%
HTC 3%
Motorola 3%
Huawei 2%
Sony Ericsson 2%
Also Rans 33%

There are some serious problems with that market share picture. First of all, one-third (33%) of all mobile phones are made by someone other than Nokia, Samsung, LG, Apple, ZTE, RIM, HTC, Motorola, Huawei and Sony Ericsson.

How many other cell phone manufacturers can you even name besides those ten? And be honest didnt you forget one or two of those top-ten companies still even made cell phones?

Second, companies other than the top two manufacturers Nokia and Samsung account for 58% of the mobile phones sold in the world. Now, controlling 42% of the worlds market share for a product between two companies doesnt sound too bad.

But lets think about this. Are Nokia and Samsung strongly differentiated from the other companies on that list?

Or are they just lucky? Are they just flavors of the decade?

I vote for flavor of the decade. Im not sure what makes Nokia or Samsung different from RCA or Zenith. And if you check a list of todays biggest TV manufacturers youll notice Zenith and RCA arent on the list. In 20 years, will Nokia and Samsung make a list of the worlds biggest mobile phone makers?

Its a little disconcerting to see 42% of an industry in the hands of two companies that dont strike me as very different from the other names on that list. Thats really troubling. The fact, that they are headquartered in two completely different parts of the world is also troubling.

Having world leaders located in different places is normally fine. If theres a reason. But its important that there be legitimate geographical reasons why you should have a market leader in Finland and a market leader in Korea.

In general, you dont want to see market leaders founded in totally disparate times and places. The best industries usually involve several leaders who were founded under similar circumstances. For example, Company A can trace its origins to Company B. You want them to be founded in the same town, region, country, by the same person, etc.

Obviously, having market leaders who entered the business around the same time is a very good sign. Its one of the best signs of a self-sealing market-entry industry. An industry where the door shuts behind you.

You hate to see a group of the top five companies in your industry where No. 1 entered the business in 1920, No. 2 entered the business in 1990, No. 3 entered the business in 1970, etc. Thats a terrible sign. It means companies are coming and going as they please.

I like an industry with a common origin. Ive talked about DreamWorks (DWA) in the past. Think about the three brands in the animation you know best Pixar, DreamWorks and Disney (DIS) they can all trace their roots to a single company and a single relationship. Pixar and DreamWorks were both founded by ex-Disney people.

We want to see something like the cruise business. Whatever the problems with profitability in that industry returns on investment are not impressive we know companies will definitely not be coming and going as they please:

Market Share

Carnival (CCL): 52%

Royal Caribbean (RCL): 26%

Norwegian: 8%

MSC: 5%

Disney: 2%

Also Rans: 8%

Lets look at the top three cruise companies:

Carnival (founded 1972 by Ted Arison)

Royal Caribbean (founded 1968 by several companies)

Norwegian (founded 1966 by Knut Kloster and Ted Arison)

None of those companies was founded more recently than 40 years ago. They were all founded within about half a decade of each other. Two of them share a founder (Arison). Together, these three companies control over 85% of the global cruise business. The largest (Carnival) has about half the market to itself. And the two largest (Carnival and Royal Caribbean) together have three-quarters of the market.

Thats what I like to see.

So what do I look for when I see market share statistics for an industry?

First, youd like the company you are looking at to have a high relative market share. So, the companys market share if it is the leader in its industry divided by the next closest competitor is high. Often, 1.5 is considered high. But a relative market share of 2 or more is always nice to see.

A company like McCormick (MKC) has a high relative market share in addition to a high absolute market share. They have anywhere from 40% to 60% of the consumer spice business in the U.S. This is more than double the market share of their nearest competitor.

You want to look at this from a customer perspective not a corporate perspective. We want to compare actual alternatives. Although different spices are used for different things and some are sold in grinders and some in pouches and some in flip tops, etc. they are all just alternatives for the same thing. They are things you buy in a grocery store and add to a dish. Group them together. Likewise, every cruise is an alternative to cruising with another company. They are actual alternatives as well.

For some products, the market we are measuring their share of is very, very small. Its very specific. Go to a drugstore. Look for wart remover. Its not a big industry. But the only products that are alternatives to each other are the ones that actually remove warts.

Competitively, its more important to know a company owns the No. 1 wart remover in America than that it has 7% of all drug store aisle sales spread across a lot of different products. You can have less than 1% and have a good business if that 1% is being the leader in wart remover, ear wax softener, etc. Theres actually a company like this. Its called Prestige Brands (NYSE:PBH). And, yes, it reports market share for all its major brands even though these are products like Compound W and Murine.

There are advantages to huge scale. Of course, most of these advantages disappear if your competitors also have huge scale. And there are some very frightening competitive tendencies that appear in industries with a lot of scale and very little differentiation.

In businesses like the one Nokia is in you dont control your own destiny. In the long-run you are at the mercy of your competition. Not just one competitor. But the collective stupidity of the group. Thats what determines your long-term returns on investment.

The first line of defense in any industry is not selling the most products to customers. The first line of defense is having the most customers relative to alternatives. Its being the preferred product.

Nokia has market share. But its not a big market share in absolute terms. And its definitely not a stable market share. Whats worse is that a couple rungs down from Nokia we see companies with laughably small market share. The cell phone industry has a lot of scale and very little preference.

Complete dominance by a single company is fine. This would mean the company is either a Hidden Champion serving a tiny niche or a multinational monopoly like Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT).

But an oligopoly-type business is also fine. Look at the four leading advertising companies:

Omnicom (NYSE:OMC)

Interpublic (NYSE:IPG)



And now look at the four leading mobile phone companies:





Which group has the more stable position? Which group is more likely to earn consistent profits as a group? And which list of names is less likely to change in the next ten years?

Likewise, lets look at the flavors and fragrances industry:

International Flavors and Fragrances (IFF)





Like the advertising business these world leaders are spread around a bit one is in the U.S., one is in Japan, one is in Germany and two are in Switzerland.

Again, we have a lack of change in this business like we do in the advertising business. IFF was created out of a merger in the 1950s. It has been public for almost 50 years.

Even in industries where competition is hard to measure, I like to see a company with a strong position that isnt new. I like to see a lack of change.

Ive talked about FICO (FICO) before. The company was founded in 1956.

Ive talked about Dun & Bradstreet (NYSE:DNB) too. Their history goes back to the 1800s. They were formed through a merger in the 1930s. And their key product DUNS was created almost 50 years ago.

Obviously, there is nothing wrong with a new world leader in some business. Facebook may turn out to be a splendid investment. If you understand their moat and you are absolutely sure its durable you have my blessing to buy that companys shares when you can. The same is true of Google (NASDAQ:GOOG).

As long as you believe their competitive positions are lasting, you can buy those stocks on a P/E ratio basis.

Thats not true of a company like Nokia. I wouldnt buy a cell phone company because it had a low P/E.

To me, the cell phone business looks exactly like the TV business. And I expect it will end just as badly for the companies involved.

There have been something like 220 U.S. TV manufacturers over the years. Ninety percent of them have either abandoned the business or gone belly up themselves.

Some of the old American TV brands have been preserved or dug up from the dead and are now used by foreign companies.

The world leaders in the TV business have not been constant. Theyve changed a lot over time. And they have changed a lot in geography. Countries that had a lot of leading TV companies in the early years now have almost none.

Is this just a manufacturing issue? When television was first successfully commercialized (well call that 1948 when the percentage of Americans with TVs was around 1%) the U.S. did a lot more manufacturing than it does today.

Of course, thats no excuse for why U.S. companies dont still produce a lot of TVs. Obviously, they could make the sets in other countries if they wanted to. There have to be other reasons why U.S. TV manufacturers arent still among the world leaders.

Why are so many foreign companies now selling TVs in the U.S. while foreign companies are not selling a lot of underwear, soda, spices, etc. in this country?

The TV business is not a business you stay in. Its a business you enter and exit and hope to make some profits by riding a societal wave for a while and getting out before your margins hit zero.

I dont see any reason why the cell phone business will be different.

They seem remarkably similar to me.

In both cases, the technology was developed long before it became an important feature of our day-to-day lives. The TV was invented sometime in the 1928 to 1934 time period depending on what exactly you call a TV. It couldnt really be commercialized until 1938. And it wasnt really successfully commercialized until almost 1948. The cell phone was invented in lets call it 1978.

So, were about as far into the cell phone era 44 years as we were into the TV era back in 1972.

In the U.S., it took about 34 years (if we say the TV was invented in 1928) for the TV to reach what well call virtually complete penetration (90% of all American households). That happened in 1962. Depending on which sources you look at, we are either at that level now or a little bit lower than that level with cell phones. And we are also exactly 34 years from the products launch. Cell phones arent directly comparable to TVs because the percentage of American adults with cell phones will probably never reach 90% - its maybe 80% right now. But the number of households with cell phones is higher than 80%. Its probably about 90%. And, like TVs, the number of devices divided by the number of households in the U.S. is actually greater than 100% because households average more than one device.

The key point here is scale. And thats the problem. These are widespread devices used as part of our daily lives. But they are the hardware part.

The TV broadcasting business was a very good business for a very long time. The TV set manufacturing business was not.

There may very well be carriers who make a lot of money on cell phones for a very long time. But I doubt cell phone manufacturers will consistently earn economic profits making cell phones.

We are talking about a global business of enormous scale. Yes, when something like smart phones come around everyone gets excited, and some folks (like Apple) even make some great returns on capital for a while..

But how is this different from high definition TVs? Companies wanted to leave the TV manufacturing business in the 1970s companies like Zenith branched out into any related products (like cable) to try to stay on the edge of a societal wave.

But the TV business was bad in the 1970s and 1980s. Thats why companies abandoned the industry.

The TV industry changed again. Itll always change. Theyll be glimmers of hope.

Flat panels were a lot more exciting. But its not like anyone is going to make lasting money in flat panels. Its a terrible business.

Ultimately, a cell phone is nothing that a TV or a toaster isnt. And the history of the industry is going to play out like TVs and toasters. This isnt a business companies stay in. And if they do stay in the business, investors should get out.

There are going to be bursts of innovation and change in the business. And someone like Apple will capitalize on that for a few years. And then everyone will make a phone just like that. And no one will make any money.

In his book, Security Analysis, Ben Graham opened with a quote from the Roman poet Horace:

Many shall be restored that are now fallen and many shall fall that are now in honor.

Thats the cell phone business. Thats the TV business.

I would never buy a cell phone stock for its earning power. I would never buy a cell phone stock for its market share.

Why would I think that what a company earned last year in an industry like this has anything to do with what it will earn over the next decade or two?

Would I buy a cell phone company on a Ben Graham basis?

As a net-net?


But last I checked, Nokia had tangible shareholders equity of 7.67 billion euros. The companys market cap is 11.37 billion euros. So we arent even talking about a company thats trading below tangible book value.

If Nokia falls another 35% from here without losing any money in the meantime Id take a look at the stock. I could make a case for investing in a cell phone company when it trades below tangible book, as a net-net, etc.

But, no, I would never consider buying a cell phone stock above tangible book value.

I just wont even look at a company in this industry unless it trades below tangible book.

I have no way of valuing a cell phone stock on its earning power. So, I really dont care what it once earned.

That sounds harsh. But it only sounds harsh because some people believe the cell phone is a tech business. And tech is sometimes worth a lot more than book.

Yes, the right kind of tech stock is worth many, many times its book value.

But, honestly, theres no reason a cell phone company should sell for a higher ratio to its tangible book value than a company that slaughters pigs like Smithfield Foods (SFD) or Seaboard (SEB) or a company that produces eggs like Cal-Maine (CALM) or a company that grows fruit like Chiquita (CQB), Dole (DOLE), and Fresh Del Monte (FDP).

At a deep enough discount to book value Id consider any of those companies. And Id consider Nokia. But as an investor Nokia really does look a lot like those companies to me. Cell phones may be more exciting than pigs and pineapples. But I dont see why the economics are different.

Nokia had its moment in the sun. It was in honor. It fell. And now its a global commodity company in an industry with ungodly scale and lots of hungry, desperate competitors.

It doesnt really matter to me that theyre selling phones instead of pork or bananas. I think the long-term realities of the industry are the same.

Now, you can do things in the cell phone business that maybe would get me interested in your competitive position. But you can do that in pork and fruit too. Its very tough. But with the right management team and the right decisions in terms of how to control the product and get the very best price for it gain some degree of pricing power I could be interested in any of these companies.

But not above tangible book value. I would never pay more than tangible book value for Nokia or any other cell phone company.

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Geoff Gannon

Rating: 4.0/5 (27 votes)


HDeffebach - 8 years ago    Report SPAM

You may be right, but there are some things to consider. First, cell phones are not analogous to TVs as the replacement cycle on a cell phone is about 18 months versus 7 years for TVs. Additionally, cell phone market dwarfs the tv market and is exploding in the BRICs. Second, the carriers (worldwide) hate the Google/Apple duopoly (especially apple b/c carries have to subsidize phones so heavily) and are pushing Windows phones. Third, Nokia has distribution worldwide in place. Fourth, and most importantly, hundreds of millions of smartphone users will come on line in China/India over the next 3 years. They are price sensitive, don't like expensive contracts (Apple phones), and they are trained in windows. Finally, unlike the United States, these buyers are used to buying Nokia phones.

I don't get your comments re: searching for common roots in a global business. Nokia is over 100 years old and I suspect very important to Finland. They have cash to get them through 3-4 years if necessary.

I'm traditionally a fairly pure value investor and might not buy Nokia but for some deep familiarity with this industry. Sporting a 6% dividend, cash for the intermediate term, a history of success and a potential pathway to future success, it makes an intriguing investment to me.
Harish - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the nice article. But is it possible that your comparison of the cell phones and tv industry is a bit flawed. Hear me out. I agree that the plain vanilla phones are no different from TVs. Low margin high volume, highly competitive and no durable advantages with lots of players. But consider smartphones.

If one thinks of smart phones as mere hardware, then the above conclusion applies as well. But is that so? If I think of smartphones as platforms, as forms of personal secretaries, of time keepers of my daily tasks, storage of vast amounts of very personal / very important information (mails / reports etc.) do I not really want a phone from a vendor that I can trust? I donot really care what my TV does, I can always get a new one. But I do really care how my smartphone handles / stores my data (the safety of which is intangibly important to me). Also note that smartphones are platforms essentially and all the network / competitive and habit forming effects apply to platforms, right? And hence a stickiness as well. Will that not lead to above average returns.

With the above context in mind, Nokia being valuable is more about being able to establish a durable platform based on windows ecosystem and being able to expand based on that. Clearly this is not an asset valuation question?
Cornelius Chan
Cornelius Chan - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
Geoff Gannon's article on Nokia has given me pause for thought. I have revised my preset buy price downward, closer to book value.

Even though I am personally highly positive on the future of Nokia's joint venture with Microsoft to create the 3rd mobile platform that the world needs, I am thinking it would be wise to consider his words with care.

After all, the upshot of his article is only that he would not buy above book value. He did not say he would not buy (and he has not given a sell price).

Peter_burke_ceo - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
Geoff has this one exactly right. cell phones may be a worse business than TVs because at least TVs don't change every 18 months with new technologies being introduced. that's exactly How Nokia initially stumbled. Apple totally changed the dynamics and economics of the handset business five or so years ago, and Nokia is only Now responding to those changes. For all the strengths of Nokia pointed out by the commentators above, Nokia is losing money on it's handset business. Strengths? The dividend is history. Companies that lose money don't pay out dividends.

For Nokia to be attractive to Microsoft, it needs to excise the dumb phone business. It has to sell that business to someone in China. It also has to get out of Nokia/Seimens partnership. And lastly, it should probably explore selling the navigation business. What remains must look a lot like MMI, which was essentially a patent portfolio and a smartphone business (and a cable modem business which will be sold by google), albeit one that was only break even. The smartphone business is for the most part a break even business, or marginally profitable, for everybody other than Apple and Samsung.
Batbeer2 premium member - 8 years ago
cell phones may be a worse business than TVs because at least TVs don't change every 18 months with new technologies being introduced.

That could just as well be an argument why cell phones are a better business.

Philip Fisher invested in tech. He preferred R&D intensive businesses.

If Buffett likes something it's probably a good idea. If Buffett doesn't, this doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Stephen Neumeier
Stephen Neumeier premium member - 8 years ago

Do you see any brand value in Apple?

Are there any examples of customers getting as excited about a TV as they do about Apple's products?

It seems to me that Apple does have some brand value. Nokia not so much......
Superguru - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
I am already waiting for whatever revolutionary product Apple is going to bring in 8 months. I not buying a TV till then as it is rumored to be a TV.

Not many can afford IPhone in India. For them it is Nokia or Samsung. I just read, Samsung overtook Nokia in handset sales to become number 1.

Sony - SNE appears to be in very very bad position too. I plan to buy a Sony DVD player though I have a feeling this might be the last DVD player I will need. Sony has PlayStation and TVs, thats it . For music system I like SONOS now. But again US market is different than India China market.
Batbeer2 premium member - 8 years ago
>> It seems to me that Apple does have some brand value. Nokia not so much......

Robmor - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
To me this articles highlights the great challenge in idenifying when to use tangible book or replacement value versus earnings power for valuation purposes. The only way to do this is by thinking a lot about the business itself and the competitive forces it is exposed to, just like Geoff has done. Great article!

BEL-AIR - 8 years ago    Report SPAM
Great article...

I know Nokia is huge in Asia, but even their people in third world countries now want the smart phones.

I have to agree with Geoff Gannon on this one..

It is to hard to predict, to many unknowns....

To much competition.

I not sure if I would want Nokia at any price, after all, at what price was Nortel, Atari, Commadore 64 a good price?

I looked at Nokia for 20 seconds and put into the to hard pile right along with Rim...

I would rather own a more simple predictable business.

I just not smart enough to know what the smart phone industry is gonna look like 10 years from now and who will still be around.

SeaBud premium member - 7 years ago
Wanted to raise this article again with a couple of observations that seem to be proving true:

- Apple has had ridiculous margins. That this will NOT continue is becoming obvious. Companies eating their margins will have at least a few great years. Unless Apple comes out with the next big thing, the stock will suffer.

- Nokia's "feature phone" in India (the Asha) is a hit. Nokia has known how to sell lower end phones for decades and make money. That continues.

- Nokia's lumia is rated as well or better than IOS or droids by most reviewers and sales in the EU/US appear very solid to great. More known in 1 month. The phone is a winner but the question remains if the Win8 network is. I continue to believe that gaming (XBox compatible), NFC, LTE and camera will make the Lumia competitive on the smartphone side. Remember that Nokia did not need a home run with Lumia, as the stock was priced at liquidation with this biz at $0. Even a single is a huge win.

- The lower level lumias (520/620) could kill it in China/Mexico/India as they have no competition from Apple and are a straight shot at the Droid phones. The china deal on the 920T could be huge.

- Carriers are still dying to get a third platform out so they can stop subsidizing Apple.

Hard for me to imagine a large loss here as signs of failure will become evident by mid year 2013. Upside is much higher and in my view more probable and I get paid almost 6% to wait. One of my bigger bets and, to repeat, though I am usually a strict value player, I am familiar with this industry and the dynamics point toward a potential Nokia single to a home run.

Loved Nokia in the $2.50 range, still like it but bough enough already.

Now I'm looking at Intel and wondering how it can be priced so cheaply.....

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